Anybody with a PhD from abroad (not Portugal)?

[susy]

Hi guys,

I am applying for the BPD. In section 9 (graus academicos),
I have to upload certificates from degree, master and PhD. I am only talking about the certificates as I got all my education in the UK and we don't have percentiles nor any other thing to upload.

My question is: when I try to enter my PhD, the system asks me the grade. FAQs say that I should select "Qualitative" because there is not a scale of 10-20 for grades. The problem is that even the "Qualitative" scale, asks me to input a grade, "fair to excellent". If I select "Other", it asks me a certificate.
The problem is that in the UK, PhD do not have grades! What can I write? What can I select?

Does anybody know???

Thank you

[spca]

Hi, Susy.
I may be asking something stupid since I don't have access to the form since I'm not applying now. But is this not to upload your PhD certificate? Or some declaration (in PDF format or so) where you can say that your PhD does not have grades?
Not all Portuguese PhDs have grades (mine hasn't, for example, some universities don't grade PhD's like the one where I did mine).
As a last resort, I suggest to grade yourself as Excellent and try to state in some Observations / Comments camp that your PhD does not have grades. Anyway, you will have to upload the certificate, I suppose.

Good luck.

[susy]

Hi, Susy.
I may be asking something stupid since I don't have access to the form since I'm not applying now. But is this not to upload your PhD certificate? Or some declaration (in PDF format or so) where you can say that your PhD does not have grades?
Not all Portuguese PhDs have grades (mine hasn't, for example, some universities don't grade PhD's like the one where I did mine).
As a last resort, I suggest to grade yourself as Excellent and try to state in some Observations / Comments camp that your PhD does not have grades. Anyway, you will have to upload the certificate, I suppose.

Good luck.

Hi,
thank you!

I think I will be doing just what you said. I spoke to them and they told me that I have to convert all my degrees, from undergaduate to master and phd. I have to do it through an application on the DGES website for which the english version doesnt work, so it is all in portuguese and i think i also have to pay to convert my certificates, but i cannot be sure. I tried to call them but they closed at 12.30
The fct helpdesk also told me that anyway, the dges will probably take longer than I have until the deadline next monday, so not really much point on applying for the conversion

I will just send the certificates I have from the UK university, they are in english, i am sure everybody can read and understand them. I hope they will not penalise my project because of these conversions

Thank you for your help!

[spca]

Hi, Susy.
I may be asking something stupid since I don't have access to the form since I'm not applying now. But is this not to upload your PhD certificate? Or some declaration (in PDF format or so) where you can say that your PhD does not have grades?
Not all Portuguese PhDs have grades (mine hasn't, for example, some universities don't grade PhD's like the one where I did mine).
As a last resort, I suggest to grade yourself as Excellent and try to state in some Observations / Comments camp that your PhD does not have grades. Anyway, you will have to upload the certificate, I suppose.

Good luck.

Hi,
thank you!

I think I will be doing just what you said. I spoke to them and they told me that I have to convert all my degrees, from undergaduate to master and phd. I have to do it through an application on the DGES website for which the english version doesnt work, so it is all in portuguese and i think i also have to pay to convert my certificates, but i cannot be sure. I tried to call them but they closed at 12.30
The fct helpdesk also told me that anyway, the dges will probably take longer than I have until the deadline next monday, so not really much point on applying for the conversion

I will just send the certificates I have from the UK university, they are in english, i am sure everybody can read and understand them. I hope they will not penalise my project because of these conversions

Thank you for your help!

Hi, Susy.
In the case of foreign degrees you are responsible for the conversion (Evaluation Guide, p 14 - unfortunately it's in Portuguese - http://www.fct.pt/apoios/bolsas/concurs ... 013_PT.pdf), so just convert everything to a 0-20 scale (if applicable 20 = best , if it's an A-E scale I'd say to convert it into a 5-1 scale (A=5, B=4, C=3) and multiply by 4, e.g. A=5*4=20) and insert the degrees certificates in English.
If you have an A grade maybe it's best to place something like 18 instead of 20.
Anyway the evaluation guide says the evaluators should not to give much importance to the grades of past degrees for a postdoc.

Good luck

[susy]

Thank you

I will do as you suggest!

so from now on finger crossed

When do you think we will have results? By Christmas? Before? After?

[spca]

Thank you

I will do as you suggest!

so from now on finger crossed

When do you think we will have results? By Christmas? Before? After?

Hello.
In the last two years the contest finished by June, 1st week of July, and the results were out, if I am not wrong, by September / October. So now that it will finish by September I'd say that if the trend continues they will likely be known by December. The 90 business days deadline (worst case scenario) should end by the end of January, I think.

Good luck.

[spca]

Hi, Susy.
I may be asking something stupid since I don't have access to the form since I'm not applying now. But is this not to upload your PhD certificate? Or some declaration (in PDF format or so) where you can say that your PhD does not have grades?
Not all Portuguese PhDs have grades (mine hasn't, for example, some universities don't grade PhD's like the one where I did mine).
As a last resort, I suggest to grade yourself as Excellent and try to state in some Observations / Comments camp that your PhD does not have grades. Anyway, you will have to upload the certificate, I suppose.

Good luck.

Hi,
thank you!

I think I will be doing just what you said. I spoke to them and they told me that I have to convert all my degrees, from undergaduate to master and phd. I have to do it through an application on the DGES website for which the english version doesnt work, so it is all in portuguese and i think i also have to pay to convert my certificates, but i cannot be sure. I tried to call them but they closed at 12.30
The fct helpdesk also told me that anyway, the dges will probably take longer than I have until the deadline next monday, so not really much point on applying for the conversion

I will just send the certificates I have from the UK university, they are in english, i am sure everybody can read and understand them. I hope they will not penalise my project because of these conversions

Thank you for your help!

Hi, Susy.
In the case of foreign degrees you are responsible for the conversion (Evaluation Guide, p 14 - unfortunately it's in Portuguese - http://www.fct.pt/apoios/bolsas/concurs ... 013_PT.pdf), so just convert everything to a 0-20 scale (if applicable 20 = best , if it's an A-E scale I'd say to convert it into a 5-1 scale (A=5, B=4, C=3) and multiply by 4, e.g. A=5*4=20) and insert the degrees certificates in English.
If you have an A grade maybe it's best to place something like 18 instead of 20.
Anyway the evaluation guide says the evaluators should not to give much importance to the grades of past degrees for a postdoc.

Good luck

Hello.
I will paste directly the Portuguese paragraph of page 14 of the Assessment Guide that is about this:
source: http://www.fct.pt/apoios/bolsas/concurs ... 013_PT.pdf

Encontram-se também nesta situação [cases that are different from the normal for assessment of candidate's merit for PhD fellowship application] os candidatos com graus académicos estrangeiros. Neste caso é da responsabilidade do candidato apresentar a conversão da sua nota de licenciatura para a escala portuguesa (0-20) e anexar ao formulário de candidatura o documento oficial no qual se baseou para efetuar a conversão. Quando a instituição de ensino superior estrangeira adote a escala de classificação portuguesa não haverá necessidade de conversão devendo o painel considerar a classificação constante no diploma.
Por forma a auxiliar o candidato na classificação dos graus estrangeiros para a classificação portuguesa sugere-se a consulta do sítio da Direção Geral do Ensino Superior:
http://www.dges.mctes.pt/DGES/pt/Reconh ... cAcademico
Os candidatos com graus estrangeiros têm ainda que explicitar claramente no formulário o número de créditos, a classificação final com e sem conversão, e o número de anos do curso frequentado.

Trying to translate:
This case [cases that are different from the normal for assessment of candidate's merit for PhD fellowship application] also applies for candidates with foreign academic degrees. In this case it is the responsibility of the candidate to present the conversion of his/her graduation classification for the Portuguese scale (0-20) and to attach to the application form the official document where he/she based him/herself to make this conversion. When the foreign higher education institution adopts the portuguese classification there is no need for conversion and the evaluation panel should consider the diploma classification.
In order to help the candidate in the conversion of classification of foreign degrees into portuguese classification we suggest the consultation of the site of Direção Geral do Ensino Superior (General Direction of Higher Education):
http://www.dges.mctes.pt/DGES/pt/Reconh ... cAcademico
The candidates with foreign degrees also must state clearly in the form the number of credits, final classification with and without conversion, and the number of years of the degree.

From the many ones in the DGES site, I think the one that applies for conversion to the UK is this (that you can place as the official document where you base the conversion, I think, together with your certificate if it's not somewhere else)
http://www.dges.mctes.pt/NR/rdonlyres/4 ... choUK2.pdf
The table of conversion is the last one, something like this:

UK classification --- Portuguese classification
3 = (40-49%) --- 12
2.2 = (50-59%) --- 14
2.1 = (60-69%) --- 16
1 = (70-100%) --- 18

This is for PhD applications, but if you must state classifications in the postdoc application and nothing else is said anywhere else I guess it's what you must do.

I hope that I didn't make you do any mistake and this makes some sense for you.

All the best.

[susy]

hi!
thank you again for the trouble you went in to translate everything!

The problem is that Master and PhD doesn't have grades, at least in my institute here in the UK. The article you translated states that it is my duty to have it translated and to attach the official document, which is the one from the DGES for a fee, just like they told me today over the phone.

Having said this, I think that my degree is in english and easily understandable and I have a 1st, so it is the max grade, shouldn't be any problem. It also shouldn't count as I am applying for the BPD. My PhD is not even yet awarded, as here in the UK we hand in the thesis, then we do the viva (final examination) then we get corrections, and I will hand them in these days. So, not only it doesnt have a grade, it isnt even finished yet, so I do not see the point on starting the whole process.
As for the master, it doesn#t have grades, I am sure that if I send it to the DGES, I will have an answer in a week more or less saying that it was not possible to give it an equivalent portuguese grade. THerefore I will only attach the certificate, again it is in English, so they will understand it and it shouldnt count anyway for the BPD.

So I think this whole thing of conversion is silly, if my certificates were written in arabic then maybe, but they are from well accredited UK Institutions.

Don't worry, if they will penalise my application because of this, it will certainly not be your fault, you actually tried to help me! They can always ask for the conversion certificates as a condition once they offer me the fellowship

[spca]

hi!
thank you again for the trouble you went in to translate everything!

The problem is that Master and PhD doesn't have grades, at least in my institute here in the UK. The article you translated states that it is my duty to have it translated and to attach the official document, which is the one from the DGES for a fee, just like they told me today over the phone.

Having said this, I think that my degree is in english and easily understandable and I have a 1st, so it is the max grade, shouldn't be any problem. It also shouldn't count as I am applying for the BPD. My PhD is not even yet awarded, as here in the UK we hand in the thesis, then we do the viva (final examination) then we get corrections, and I will hand them in these days. So, not only it doesnt have a grade, it isnt even finished yet, so I do not see the point on starting the whole process.
As for the master, it doesn#t have grades, I am sure that if I send it to the DGES, I will have an answer in a week more or less saying that it was not possible to give it an equivalent portuguese grade. THerefore I will only attach the certificate, again it is in English, so they will understand it and it shouldnt count anyway for the BPD.

So I think this whole thing of conversion is silly, if my certificates were written in arabic then maybe, but they are from well accredited UK Institutions.

Don't worry, if they will penalise my application because of this, it will certainly not be your fault, you actually tried to help me! They can always ask for the conversion certificates as a condition once they offer me the fellowship

Hi, Susy.
This is not my understanding. What I take from the Assessment Guide text is that you have to convert it yourself and submit the official document where you base yourself to do the conversion - in my understanding the law document that can you find in the DGES site, for the UK http://www.dges.mctes.pt/NR/rdonlyres/4 ... choUK2.pdf (1(UK)=18(PT), 2.1(UK)=16(PT) etc)
If the master and PhD don't have classification you don't grade them (and add a declaration that they don't have a classification, as can be seen in the certificate) but the graduation you should convert like this.
All the best for you, and sorry if I induced you in mistake.

[susy]

Hi SPCA,

I see what you mean. I think I will do it, it is easier and safer. So I convert it according to the scale and attach the pdf document with the conversion table of the DGES. As for the MSc and PhD just a declaration. Makes much more sense!

Thank you for helping

[N_C_P_de_Gloucester]

Things may be easy to understand, but FCT has a history of disingenuously pretending to misinterpret a foreign degree in order to not pay a grant. Search this website for messages by me about a very long court case of mine.

As for DGES, it is legal and advisable to instead pay any third-level institution in Portugal for recognition of a foreign grade. Expect to pay more than 100 Euro for one degree. I paid the con artists of the NARIC in Portugal (DGES) for recognition of a degree, and it did not comply with the legal deadline for performing recognition. Actually I had paid DGES years ago and it still has not provided me with recognition. I expressed displeasure, therefore DGES mentioned to me and the dean of the university which I was at that DGES was threatening to sue me. DGES did not have a case. Search this website for a message by me about NARIC.

Good luck. Consider not coming to Portugal. Really. An advantage of being in Portugal is good laws. Disadvantages of being in Portugal are a very slow court and rights are lost if you do not begin suing quickly.

[Mush]

Just for the record, I have BSc and MSc from UK and never had a problem with FCT (currently with a BD from FCT). I believe since 2007 a law was released in Portugal stating that it is no longer required to get recognition of degrees from EU countries together with guidelines/tables for conversion of grades.
I used this table to convert my BSc grade. For the Master degree which was only pass I asked the uni in UK to send me the grades for all subject and did an average myself and used the same table again.
No complaint, no problem raised from FCT, got the grant!!!
Good luck!